Your Worthy Career

Creating the Career You Always Wanted with Brena Williams (MVP)

• Melissa Lawrence • Season 1 • Episode 226

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This week I'm bringing back an episode that I think speaks to what you might be going through right now.

Brena is a Principal Scientist and member of my group coaching program, The Right Move Protocol® (formerly Beyond the Ceiling). She is sharing why she joined the group, what it's like on the inside, and the results she experienced that blew her mind. Tune in for this candid conversation about what it's like to work in the industry and the unexpected results she experienced when she invested in herself.

Brena’s views on this episode do not reflect the company she works for. These are her personal insights based on her experience and expertise in the Pharma/Biotech space and in her experience as my Coaching client.

What you'll learn:

  • Why Brena chose to invest in her career even when she had reasons not to
  • The power of having a community of like minded women to support you in your career growth
  • How Brena landed her ideal job, built her confidence, and created more time with her family than she thought was possible
  • The advice she wish she had earlier in her career and a message for anyone who thinks that the results she achieved aren't possible for them

Mentioned in this episode:

Get the Book: Your Worthy Career: A Science-Backed Method to Build a Meaningful Career in Pharma and Biotech here.

Work with Me: Learn more and apply to work with me here.

Love the podcast?  Share your feedback by leaving us a review. Thank you!

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SPEAKER_00

Welcome to Your Worthy Career, a podcast with me, Melissa Lawrence. I'm a career in life coach with all the corporate students, talent development, and organizational psychology, and I help women like you get extraordinary results by being more used, not less. I won't just help you have a career experience worthy of you, but I will help you build yourself worth what you think is possible and take the action that will create the career you've always wanted. Whether it's more meaningful, work you're passionate about, making more money, getting to your next level, or being more effective as a leader. We are shattering the glass ceiling here. The one that exists for women at work and the one we put on ourselves with our doubts and ineffects. Each week you will get practical teachings grounded in neuroscience and effective career development strategies. You'll experience deep mindset shifts in the perfect amount of rules, and you can run your career with ease rather than your career running dance. You were born for more, and I'm going to help you get there with maybe a few dance parties along the way. Your up level begins now. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the podcast. This week I am joined by my client, Brennan Williams, who is a principal scientist and member of Beyond the Ceiling. Beyond the Ceiling is my group coaching program for women in pharma or biotech who want to figure out what they want out of their career and make it happen, whether it's a new job, a promotion, or upgrading their current role. And she's joining me to talk about her career experience, what led her to joining Beyond the Ceiling and the results that she has achieved in just a few months of us working together. She's also going to provide some advice based on her experience and what she wished she had known earlier in her career, and some tips for how you can create the career that you have always wanted. So I cannot wait to dive into this conversation. Without further ado, here is my conversation with me and Brenna. Hi, Brenna. I'm so happy to have you on the podcast today. Thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

I'm really excited to be able to sit here and talk with you today. So, everyone listening, could you share a little bit about yourself, who you are, what you do?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I am a principal scientist in upstream process development. And I've been doing this for a little over 15 years. And, you know, I started out as a cell person, a cell biologist, did a lot of that in my undergrad and graduate studies. And I like keeping what I call my cell babies happy. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00

And what made you want to work in this industry?

SPEAKER_01

I did not know I wanted to be in this industry. I can't say that through my schooling that I ever like imagined seeing where I am today, it's been kind of an interesting roadmap. But definitely once I fell into it, there was just a lot of love and passion for it. And the idea of being able to help patients and people and making medicines that can help provide better life quality for people.

SPEAKER_00

Awesome. I think that a lot of people can really relate to that. I think almost everyone I talk to, that's why they want to work in this space, is really the impact on patients and helping other people. And you're a member of Beyond the Ceiling, which is my group coaching program. And so I really am so happy that you are here to share your experience and share what it's been like for you being in the program. When you started looking at your career, can you take us back to what things were like for you before you pursued coaching?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. You know, at this point in my career, I'm very comfortable in the lab and doing what I do. You know, I can run bioreactors with my eyes closed and just really predict what the work is. But I wasn't really sure about other kinds of things that were maybe holding me back in my career progression. Was it my theatrical personality, or if I wasn't showing enough dedication to the job? And I was really constantly feeling drained and always trying to do more, but never really feeling confident in myself as a scientist or the space that I was in.

SPEAKER_00

And you were at a pivot point, right? You were impacted by a layoff. So you were looking at what is going to be your next move and wanting to address some of those concerns around feeling energized by your work and making sure that you were in the right place. So can you tell me a little bit? I guess, if you think of that time when you were kind of in between and we had that initial conversation, why was it important to you to figure out what you wanted next in your career and to pursue coaching at that time instead of just running out and getting the first job available to you and thinking about it later?

SPEAKER_01

You really had said something that sparked me and being excited about the opportunity of getting career coaching. I've always been hesitant of investing in myself. I always put effort towards the work or the, you know, the dynamics of a work environment, but I don't think I had ever inwardly worked on myself or done something to help me specifically. So yeah, even though I was unemployed, it was an opportunity to invest in myself. And there was really no better opportunity. I had the time being laid off. And it was just really a no-brainer for me at the time. I was hesitant and I was nervous, but the opportunity of being able to see more in myself, I had to. I had to take a chance and try something different.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And what was the main problem that you were looking to solve, other than kind of building your confidence?

SPEAKER_01

That was definitely a huge one. The work-life balance. There were, there's been a lot that I've learned there with you. But um, you know, I was always feeling just tired and drained. I wasn't, I didn't have enough energy to go to work. I didn't have enough energy to really spend with my kids. But at the same time, I felt like I was always working or I was always just doing more, more, more, more for work and just never really seeing any benefit from the more that I gave.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's really relatable. I have felt that way about my career in the past too. And it sounds like like when you say, oh, it was a no-brainer, some people could look at those circumstances, not just with the position, but just the way that you felt about yourself and not interpret that as, well, the no-brainer is to invest in myself, especially when you haven't before. And it sounds like you were also looking at it as like a tipping point because you had given so much to your career and you wanted more time with your family and you wanted something different, and there wasn't another option that you were seeing. And this looked like it was something that could help, that it seemed like it was like a break the glass moment.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And I I was always worried about just maybe being vulnerable, maybe in the group. That was there was a hesitation point there, but we're not being good enough at work, and just all of those kinds of things played a big role in how do I overcome that. And I'm realizing now how much pressure I was really putting on myself and just to be more always. There was just there, there was a lot of self-driven pressures that maybe kind of spiraled out of control.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So when you were thinking about like where you were then, I think you've painted such a good picture and it's so relatable. What interested you about Beyond the Ceiling? Because, like you said, you had a little hesitancy about speaking up, some worthiness coming up. And so going into a group space, what kind of called you to that?

SPEAKER_01

It was really the opportunity to not just learn more about myself, but also hearing what the struggles are from other people and learning about what other people are doing that has worked for them, but it might give me an idea on how to try it myself, or maybe making tweaks so that it applies to me. And really, it's been this interesting network of possibilities and learning different job functions, different ideologies, and how the workplace is for other people, and seeing how it fits for me and being able to really take those ideas into consideration on how I A present myself and B, how I might pivot to help other people view me differently and more positively.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think it's so interesting. This group that we have right now that's wrapping up, it's really like all of my clients, which is why I wanted to do a group like this, so that you can all see how similar you are, but you're all so different and unique, but you also have a lot of overlap. And I think it's really fun to it's fun for me to see how you all interact with each other and to see that you're not alone. And I think sometimes at work, especially anyone who has struggled with speaking up or being too visible or worrying what people will think about them, when you're in this space with other women that are all different companies, all different levels like we have in the group, and you're seeing that they're feeling a lot of the same way. It gives you that courage, aside from the skill you're learning in the space we're in together and coaching, but it gives you that kind of courage and reassurance when you're at work to be like, oh, these there's a lot of women that are just like me. They're probably thinking the same thing as me. And it makes it easier to speak up. Did you find that?

SPEAKER_01

I definitely did. And actually, it's given me a lot more courage to just kind of quash those feelings of not speaking up, not just in the group, but I'm finding myself speaking more boldly in my meetings because where else am I going to get an opportunity?

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so when you think about like that hesitancy you had to join the group, you talked a little bit about kind of being seen in the group or speaking up in the group. Was there any other doubt you had or hesitancy in joining?

SPEAKER_01

I think the initial hesitancy was really just in again, investing in myself and am I worth it? And after talking with my husband, you know, I was worried about telling, you know, getting my husband to also be on board with it. And he actually had looked you up and he's after a while, and he was like, Oh no, this is a great idea. She's got a great background and and she's very successful. You know, you should do it. And I was like, here I came to make this argument, and he had already made it for me. And it really, again, just it made it easier to say, okay, let's do this. Yeah. And it was just the opportunity of helping to elevate myself.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's almost like the things you wanted to achieve, you got started right away by advocating for yourself for this investment. Yeah. Right. Because it's the a lot of the same skills we talk about around advocating for yourself at work, speaking up at work. And to do that at work, you have to do that for yourself. And you can start by doing that by going after the things that you really want, whether it's this or something else, by speaking up in a safe space, like in this curated group we have. All of that allows you to build that skill in a way that feels less scary than going out into the workplace. So let's talk about some of the results that you've gotten in the program. So the program is four months long. So we're almost finished with the first round. So it's only been a few months. What are some of the results that you've gotten?

SPEAKER_01

I have been almost recognized differently by people in leadership. I feel like before, nobody has ever said the words leader with me in mind. And simply having conversations with both my CEO and my direct manager, both of them have seen the idea of like leadership potential in me. And they have mentioned that growing towards leadership, or you know, you should use your experience as a way to help lead within your team. And these are just things that had never been discussed in my presence or really realized by anybody else before, at least not verbally to me. And so I really feel like I'm carrying myself differently as I talk to my own core leadership in the company. And that has been a huge pivot for me where I'm I'm feeling the work that I've been doing realized.

SPEAKER_00

And so just to bridge the gap for the people listening, Brennan did get a new job right away. Right? And now you're talking about how your leadership is recognizing you as a leader yourself and how you're showing up at work differently. But you did get a new role within the first month of the program, which is fantastic.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I had started, I had gotten a couple of interviews right as we were starting. And by I think week two or three of the program, I was getting an offer. And I had, I don't know, other than, you know, I want to say I had charmed them into really not just giving me an offer, but they went beyond what my expectations really would have been. So like I had a calm confidence about myself already, even just a couple of weeks in in talking through everything. So it was really, it was very eye-opening in that as well.

SPEAKER_00

And do you what would you say about the support that you get in the group around navigating the job market, interviewing, negotiating, and how that impacts the type of job you get and then how well, how good your offer is.

SPEAKER_01

So that was very interesting. I had never gone in trying to negotiate before. And I will tell you this time around, we had not gotten to the negotiating process of the discussion yet, but listening to everybody as they're going through their interviews and we talk about navigating negotiation. There's so many tips and tools that you give us, as well as you know, you had brought in a recruiter to talk with us about different negotiating tactics and understanding the job market. And there is so much information available in that that I had never even considered. And also just being able to put all of that in that career protocol that we work through, you know, dialing in on what are your wants? What would you need to be happy? What are your asks? And I just I had never even thought to consider so much of that. And here I am going, oh, oh, I can ask for that. Oh, people ask for that. And like I just never would, I never would have myself. And so really it was an opportunity to even learn more than I had even considered before that I didn't even realize people would negotiate in the ways that you taught us about.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there's so much inside information, and that's really, I mean, the purpose of this group is really to help women figure out what they want and then to create that for themselves, no matter where they are in the journey. And when you have someone that has tools and inside information and connections they can bring into the space, it just puts you on the fast track where you don't have to struggle and you don't have to do it alone. You don't have to go the long way. So for people that want that type of support and help, it's available. And I think it's great to give that visibility that people know that is an option if that's something that they want.

SPEAKER_01

I have to add one more thing, if that's okay, because one of the mind shifts that I was able to accomplish with you was I had told you every job I've ever shed, I just felt really lucky to have. And you were able to flip that back on me and say, and why are they lucky to have you? And that was such like a mind-blowing moment for me. And I had never considered flipping that before. And it was just a really nice revelation to be like, wait a minute, that is also, you know, they they have a benefit of having hired me because I do provide a lot of awesome talent. I say that maybe still a little bit lackluster because I'm still building confidence in in feeling that, but being able to say it out loud, it's definitely a change.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it's it's really gonna, it's changing the way that leadership is seeing you, but it's also gonna change the future of your career, right? Like we were talking about these pivots you might be making and how you might be growing within your role. Like that confidence is so important. And I think just like the call we just got off of today, like there's the tactical, I'm an expert, I have technical expertise, I can do this job. And then there's how you're thinking about yourself and how you're minimizing accomplishments and how the kind of deep-rooted thoughts or beliefs that we have about ourselves show up in the way we communicate our expertise, which then impact how well we're able to get offers, how well we're able to get interviews, how well we're able to negotiate, the types of leadership roles we might be exposed to. So, like it's my philosophy that you have to work on both. You have to have like the career strategy that works, but you also have to have like the internal work that you do too, so that you can live up to your potential and have the courage to do the things that you want to do.

SPEAKER_01

Setting fire to those limiting beliefs. I am more than my limiting beliefs. And that's something that I really feel I have been working on with all of these little homework assignments. And well, there's nothing, well, I don't want to say little in a demeaning way, like there are these little snippets of gold where you know, as you go through each homework assignment, you're like, oh yeah, I've got something to say, and then all of a sudden there's like a set of questions at the end, and you oh, well, well, dang, I never thought about it that way. And it's just this mind-blowing revelation of self-improvement.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. So tell me how you're like speaking of that, like when you think about these skills that you've built, how is your communication changed at work?

SPEAKER_01

Feeling more comfortable to openly discuss my career progression goals. And you know, I've very openly voiced to my manager, I am working on improving myself and building my career ideas with a career coach. And, you know, so I'm very open about that. And I tell him things that are on my career protocol that we've worked on. And he says, Oh, well, if these are the kinds of things that you want, then let's let's work that in. So really it's allowing me to have the opportunity to work towards all of the asks that I want for myself and communicating them with him, he gets a better idea of where I want to be going. And I'm helping to drive that. So it's giving the power back to me.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that is so powerful. So for anyone that's not familiar with the career protocol, so I did have a podcast episode called Career Protocol that talks about the process that I use. Um, but the career protocol really is a tangible document that you create with me through a process that I facilitate to help you know exactly what it is that you want for your career, down to the type of tasks you want to do each day, the level of influence you want to have, the type of company you want to work for. It takes all of these different puzzle pieces of who you are and everything you've done and everything you want for your future. And it matches you up with what is going to be your next best move. So that's a core deliverable of this program. And do you have anything more that you want to say about the career protocol as far as the impact that that has on you or how it helps you?

SPEAKER_01

I think that it really gets you to think about A, what are you doing now? And do you like it? Do you not? Like it if you don't like it, you can put it in the the category of what don't you want to be doing and and just really allowing this very specific catered towards your own self desires in what you do for work. And I just had never considered the idea of having something catered to what I want to be doing. And I uh you know, I have taken on so many tasks in the past thinking this is gonna get me promoted this time, and then really it's just like, oh, that was nice. And you know, you get the pat on your head and keep on going, do the next work. And but with the career protocol and you're driving it, and you can say, okay, is this something that I want? Is would this be seen? You know, you're really teasing apart each component that you're putting in there. Is this something that would be a promotable idea? And then really remembering as you look through it, am I doing this? Do I want to be doing this? Is it promotable? And how can I drive that conversation to make it promotable? So that's all in there.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I think it's been really fun to see all of you do different things with your protocol. So, like some of you have used it to grow in your current role, some of you have used it to get a new job, some of you like are using it to have a new job or promotion created for you. So, like once you have that information, like you're saying, it's so easy to drive that conversation because management generally, I mean, if you're working for a good manager, if you're working for a good company, of course, there's anomalies to that, but people want to see you grow and develop, just like you're talking about the conversations you have with your leadership. And where that can get stuck is if you can't clearly articulate what you want. If you can just say, well, I want to be promoted, or I'm ready for more, or I'm ready for growth, or I've worked so hard, or I've earned it, that's typically not enough to get you promoted. You have to be able to make a business case. And the queer protocol just makes it so easy to do that. So tell me about your work-life balance now, because I know that that was a problem for you before. I know even with this program, I remember you put on your consultation form that the only concern you had was you don't want it to interfere with your family time because you already felt like you didn't have enough of that. So, where is it at now?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, work-life balance. I did not ever dream of waking up before my alarm. I did not ever dream of going to bed before I felt like I was gonna fall on the floor. I am doing both of those things now. Easily. There's I have more energy to hang out with my kids. You know, I've got three little boys, and little boys are wild and energy filled, and I have more energy to play games and be goofy, which is a blessing. And I feel like even they have noticed a difference. My husband has noticed a huge difference. He said, you know, you just don't seem as stressed anymore, which is huge. I'm doing the same job. I'm still writing reports, I'm still doing lab work, but I have not like I didn't walk into this job, one of my previous jobs. I literally walked in and they were like, here, write this report. And I was literally in the first couple of weeks staying up until the wee hours of the morning saying, Oh, well, if they wanted this, I'm gonna deliver it. I'm gonna wow them. And, you know, A, it didn't really wow them in the way that I expected them to, but B, it really just wasn't necessary. And I would never have seen it as not necessary until after we had done that work. And so I'm doing the same kind of work um now that I was, and it is okay. Like I am doing okay.

SPEAKER_00

So and I remember your last evaluation. So we we measure progress along the way to make sure everyone stays on track and gets the support they need with the goals they established in the beginning. And I think you had said something like, you can't imagine your work-life balance being better. And that was like amazing to read for you because I do think some people will look at, okay, if I'm already stressed, I'm already overworking, I'm already in, and like when you don't like your job, like frankly, every time just sucks away even more because you're so stressed when you're not physically at work that it just feels like you have no time for yourself. So you have that going on. And then the idea of, oh, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna join this program where there's little homework assignments and there's two calls a week, and I can't add something more. And so I think it's so powerful for people to hear that you did that and you have such a great work-life balance now when you did take on a program into your schedule.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And not only taking in the program, but because I was very vocal about it, I am able to maneuver it into my workday and still get my work done. It also, you know, working with you guys, also just pushing back on deadlines. Deadlines are arbitrary a lot of the time that we put on ourselves or that our managers put on us. And so being able to say, hey, I know that you asked for this by this date, but I'm not seeing this as being possible to deliver, may I have an extra three days? You know, or just saying, hey, this is the timeline. And, you know, I'm very clear about what my conversation is when I'm asking for additional time. And I've done that a couple of times. It's worked really well. There's been a lot of good communication around it. And I think that's the the key there is having good communication about why I am asking for extensions, and it's worked really well.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. How do you think the the program has set you up to be successful in your new role? So you started a new role after you joined. How have you been able to transition into that role without bringing in some of your prior issues that you've had with around boundaries or just navigating obstacles in the workplace?

SPEAKER_01

Putting them out there in the group, what maybe some of my boundary issues were. It's helped me to have little accountability partnerships from you and the other ladies. You know, don't go in and kill yourself doing work that, you know, yeah, it's a deliverable. It's not the none of this is made to, you know, you you don't have to prove that you can do the impossible. So that's been a really important key piece there. And a lot of the confidence building has just helped in the communication aspect when talking about the kinds of of work that I want to be doing. I I'm literally getting the ability to do all of the things that I've asked. So just improving that communication and speaking up for myself and what my asks are, it's unlocking what it is that I want to do. That has been, you know, very eye-opening and almost quite frankly, mind-blowing. Very cool.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's been such a change.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So aside from the small things like the new job and you're making more money, and you have a good work-life balance, and you're advocating for yourself, and you have the type of work experience you want, you're being recognized by leadership. It's like so amazing where you're at with your career right now. I guess what would you say to someone that maybe thinks that you're a unicorn? They're like, well, that's just her, or she probably just has a different kind of boss, or she probably just has a more supportive husband, or she probably you know how like people tend to dismiss what's possible for them? Like, what would you say?

SPEAKER_01

I am going to say that I didn't know I was a unicorn. I didn't and everyone can become a unicorn, and unicorns are beautiful before and after they realize they're unicorns.

SPEAKER_00

That is so great. That almost like makes me cry. I didn't know I was a unicorn. That's so good.

SPEAKER_01

You know, you don't know until you unlock it. I it yes. I like I we didn't know. We just didn't know. And so many of my colleagues, you know, other ladies in this same industry, they don't know their unicorns yet. And I always hope and I'm always gonna root for everyone to learn about their amazing unicorn status. That's so good.

SPEAKER_00

Now I feel like we need a cheetah and a unicorn symbol with the face. A cheetah with a horn. So good. So before we move on to the kind of the mechanics of the group, is there anything else you want to add around any sorts of results that you've gotten in the group, or do you think we've covered it?

SPEAKER_01

I would say the other thing that I have really gained, I've always enjoyed the idea of networking, and I'm very good at talking with people, but just learning more of the concepts of networking and the fundamentals of what networking can give you, not just for making connections to improve potential career opportunities, but like networking and becoming a mentor for other individuals that want to learn more. Even while in this program, I received a message on LinkedIn, hey, I want to learn more about your career. And I was just very open to taking that call and explaining what it is I do and having an open conversation. I have a younger gentleman that I talk with at least once a month or so, and he asks me about my experience in biotech and my ideas on where to go and how to help manage his career, which I never ever thought I would have had any sort of advice. And I suppose I have a lot of advice on what not to do. But as I am getting closer to knowing more about myself through this program, you know, I'm having some great examples of what to do. And that's been really phenomenal as well.

SPEAKER_00

That's a great point. Because we do the approach that we use around networking isn't like the slimy, like brosky way that I think people think of, is we approach it from a way that is more authentic and natural for everyone to do based on where they are and what they want to achieve, so that they can leverage the benefits of having a network in the industry because it is so important for how well connected everyone is, how small the industry can seem. But it doesn't have to be the broskies like having a beer and with your collared shirt and passing business cards and shit.

SPEAKER_01

I have not passed a single business card. Legitimate connections, and they are very genuine connections. And honestly, like we've done so much practicing within the group of reaching out to each other, checking in with each other, and just having those genuine, hey, reach out to someone that you used to work with and say, Hi. I haven't told you this, but I reached out to one of my first biotech bosses last week just to say, hey, I don't know if you knew the impact that you had on me and my career. And I wanted to reach out, tell you what I've been doing and how much I enjoy where I'm at and all my goals are kind of being realized right now. And thank you. And it was just this wonderful thing. And I didn't expect him to hardly remember me at all. And he had remembered that I had done theater and you know, lots of back and forth there, a little bit of just checking in. It just really felt nice to have that connection.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. That is a great story. That's fantastic. I love that. Okay, so speaking of the community, that's kind of a hidden benefit, is if you're afraid to speak up, if you don't feel you have a good network, if you don't know how to build relationships with people or it seems intimidating, we talk about that skill and you practice it, but also you have each other, which is this natural curated network board of directors that I create for you all to get to know each other, to understand each of your roles. You come from all different backgrounds, and you obviously all have a lot in common because you're working towards similar things. What has it been like for you to have that community?

SPEAKER_01

I'm trying to find a word that really wraps it up so nicely. I don't think there is just a singular word other than again, community. And it's this community that's simultaneously exploring, improving themselves, and really helping to hold ourselves accountable to self-improvement, learning more about ourselves and being bold in a way that helps us to attain what what goals where we realize ourselves in in being capable of getting to, and really helping us to define where it is that we can go and realizing it's in our own hands.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And some of you have created connections for each other, introduced each other to people. And it's something you'll have outside of this group. Like, I have no doubt, it's one of the, I think on the very first call I say, or even before that, I think in the community introduction before we have our kickoff, I'm like, connect with each other on LinkedIn, put it here, and then you continue to have those coffee chats and conversations as you want to outside of our group calls, too, so that you can have these relationships forever. And just like you sent that note to your former boss, even if you don't talk to each other regularly after the group, you can still check in with each other. And it's just a really natural, nice way to have a support system.

SPEAKER_01

And for us, it's like three or four different states worth of connections delivered.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think we have all the coasts accounted for. What would you say is your favorite thing about Beyond the Ceiling?

SPEAKER_01

Hands down, my favorite thing. I don't even have to think about this. It's the little exercises of learning more about myself and opening up where I have had hiccups in the past that may still really hinder me in feeling comfortable or confident about myself and kind of pinpointing the why it bothers me or what or what's holding me back and just busting through that and breaking it down and not giving it any power anymore. So that at least that's how I have used a lot of these exercises and building a lot more confidence and not allowing folks who maybe kept me down in the past, but helping to break free of a lot of that perception I had on myself based on those interactions and breaking that down so that I can move forward and not let that hinder me any longer.

SPEAKER_00

And why do you think that's important?

SPEAKER_01

You can't buy confidence, you can only do it through that that the self-improvement kind of exercises. Like you can't just one day say, I want to be better, and then be better, but really diving in and opening it up, and sometimes it gets raw. I'm going to admit I cried on at least two calls. And it was just through that vulnerability and in a safe space where okay, I'm opening up, this is where I was struggling, and then saying, Oh, that doesn't have to have power over me anymore because I am more than that. And you know, again, that's with like the limiting beliefs. But then if I'm holding on to the other person's ideas of me, well, those aren't really true either. And so just learning that that's not going to benefit me long term, holding on to that. That was in the past, learning why it bothered me and how am I going to make the change to allow myself to grow better.

SPEAKER_00

So, where do you think you would be? Like, what do you think things would be like if you hadn't joined the program? If you were still the former version of Brennan, who was still fabulous but hadn't done this work.

SPEAKER_01

I would, you know, I'd still be questioning 10 times over every action I ever did. You know, it's like, um, I I remember at my last job just looking at something, is this okay? Are you am I doing the right thing? Are you okay with this? And just constantly questioning, like, it is is this the right thing? And honestly, I'm chilling out a lot more and just saying, hey, this is what I did, letting you know, informing you of the decision I made. And then going, Oh, that was easy, or and getting the feedback of sounds good. And not hearing that, you know, I think that's also where they're seeing a lot of difference in me, is I'm getting rid of that whole questioning attitude of myself, and it's opening me up to being more confident in decision making.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and that's probably related to the feedback you're getting around your leadership seeing leadership traits in you because they're seeing you be more confident and not questioning yourself. And that's something that a leader needs to be able to do. So that's great. Okay. So is there anything else you want to mention around your experience in Beyond the Ceiling?

SPEAKER_01

I love the fact that the Beyond the Ceiling program really creates a structured environment with very unique inputs so that even if we are being brought the same material, everything still comes out very uniquely defined to yourself because you're helping to set and define what that is for you. And you can make it as big or as small as you want. But when you get in here, you know you're gonna just aim for the absolute stars and moon because you're opening yourself up to all the possibilities, and there is nothing at that point holding you back but yourself.

SPEAKER_00

That is such a good point because I I think some people that might be a question somebody might have is okay, this is structured. There's two calls a week, there's um some open coaching components, and then there's some curriculum where I'm teaching you skills or tools, or you're creating your career protocol. So some people might wonder, well, how could this be that it works for me in my unique circumstances when it's structured and there are set tools and a set way that I'm teaching the material? And so I think it's great that you mentioned that, that is the way we're like this the set curriculum, the set tools, they're all around helping you figure out what's best for you. So they are applicable to every unique person, which is why it works for everyone.

SPEAKER_01

But not just each individual, but being able to take all of the tools and the materials that you provide us, having the ability to use them long term and having them grow as you grow. And just learning that as we've gone through everything, going, oh, I can modify this. Oh, okay, I can keep adding to this. Like every time you say, Oh, as you change, this will change and you'll just make modifications. So, like hearing that has really helped me to not be in a rush to complete things. I've been very kind of calm getting through things and just adding it and just asking a lot of questions of you and others in the group, especially if like I don't know what this means for for me because I've never I've never allowed myself to think about something like a non-negotiable before. Um, and so just getting feedback from others to help me, you know, whittle my way through and and and make it more tailored towards myself. And it's very uh refreshing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a really good point. Nothing that we uh go over in the program becomes outdated.

SPEAKER_01

No.

SPEAKER_00

So all of it is something that you learn it and then you continue to use it after you're in the program or as you continue to grow, like you said, and you evolve, you'll start looking at things from your new perspective, and then you'll start going to kind of a more advanced level of using the material that you get. So that's a really great point. Um, who would you recommend the program to?

SPEAKER_01

I feel like there is no limitation to who could benefit, but definitely anyone who feels like they've been spinning in circles, anyone who feels like they've been spinning in circles and not making any progress or feeling like, oh well, I don't know why I would do anything other than this. And I this just is how it is. You know, this just this is where I've got and this is where I gotta be happy at. It's not true. There is more for you if you want it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Like this is where we watch the mud off your shoes. You're not stuck anymore. Whatever it is, you'll create it. So I like to ask everyone at the end of the podcast what is one piece of advice that you wish you had earlier in your career?

SPEAKER_01

I I really enjoy this question. And I kind of have this response of not everyone is going to look like you, and not everyone is going to teach you something you want to hang on to, but we can all do hard things, and it doesn't mean we have to break to do them.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that is so meaningful. I think that is really gonna help a lot of people to hear that. Yeah, they can become a unicorn. I'm telling you. That is so good. That is so good. Okay, so I'm sure when people listen to this, they're gonna want to look you up. They're gonna want to know who this amazing Brennan is. Um, are you okay with us sharing your LinkedIn in the show notes? Okay. All right, so we'll put that in there so anyone can connect with you that would like to reach out. Is there anything else you want to add before we end today?

SPEAKER_01

Melissa is amazing. I have been just always in awe and pleasantly surprised with every exercise and learning who I am more as a scientist and as an individual contributor and myself as a leader. I can only go up from here.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thank you so much. It's been such a joy to have you in this group. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you're ready to know your best career move and get into a new job, get promoted, or upgrade your current role to one you love, join me inside Beyond the Ceiling. Beyond the Ceiling is a four-month group coaching program exclusively for women in Pharma Biotech. And roll it begins February 16th. Learn more and join us at yourworthycareer.com slash beyond.